Wikipedia:Orakelet/Arkiv/2020

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B. Binthils 1929 "Din siste storm". Kvinnelig skulptør?

Har en skulptur som forestiller hode og skuldre til en eldre mann med skjegg og oppbrettet krave. Veldig naturlig gjengitt. Sterkt ansikt. Gips. ca. 40x35 cm. Skulpturen ble kjøpt privat tidlig på 70-tallet og det fulgte med en informasjon iform av et avisutklipp om kunstneren. Denne info er blitt borte. Imidlertid er det risste inn på baksiden kunstnerens navn, årstall og verkets navn: B. Binthils 1929. "Din siste storm" Tidligere eier antydet at skulpturen forestilte Moses etter den berømte fjellturen. Håper noen kan bidra med informasjon om hvem kunstneren er og evnt litt historikk rundt denne.

Lørenskog 06.04.2011

Randi Harriet Sørensen — Dette usignerte innlegget ble skrevet av Randi Harriet (diskusjon · bidrag) 9. apr. 2011 kl. 20:43 (CEST) (Husk å signere dine innlegg!)
Oppdatert — Dette usignerte innlegget ble skrevet av Randi Harriet Sørensen (diskusjon · bidrag) 25. mai 2011 kl. 21:27 (CEST) (Husk å signere dine innlegg!)

Denne har stått ubesvart og uarkivert siden 2011. Besvarer med datert signatur slik at den etterhvert kan arkiveres av arkivboten. Har søkt i norske aviser, bøker og tidsskrift i Bokhylla (nb.no) og fikk null treff på Binthils* og Binthil*. --ツ^ツDyveldi^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 28. mar. 2020 kl. 14:02 (CET)

Ansiktsgjenkjenningologi?

Hvordan lærer man seg bedre ansiktgjenkjenning (når jeg prøver å google ender jeg bare opp med resultater om identifiseringssoftware)? Det er vel et fag innen kriminologi? Det jeg ønsker er å kunne banke igjennom at et foto er av Denellerdenpersonen og ingen andre, pga ansiktets former og utvektster, med litt mer tyngde enn bare "fordi det ligner!". Så hva (hvilket fag) må jeg lære meg/sette meg inn i? Pål N. (diskusjon) 14. mar. 2020 kl. 16:55 (CET)

Du kan ta en titt på disse lenkene.

- Du må ha et skikkelig bilde, som f eks passfoto [[1]], du trenger ørene [[2]], krav til passfoto [[3]], bilde som ikke er godt nok [[4]], krav til passfoto i verden [[5]]

- Elementer du skal se etter, beklager at mesteparten av artikkelen er bak betalmur [[6]]. Ingen anelse om hvordan programvaren virker eller om dette kan anbefales å skaffe seg [[7]]

- Hvis du ikke har to bilder som er gode nok så vil du fort ende opp med at de ligner, men sikker kan du ikke være. Har også sett eksempler på hvor i utgangspunktet så ser bildene veldig forskjellige ut, men så avslører ører og andre lite flyttbare kjennetegn at det nok er samme person allikevel. Det er lettere å være sikker på at to bilder ikke er samme person enn omvendt. --ツ^ツDyveldi^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 14. mar. 2020 kl. 20:44 (CET)

Alchemist

Hi. I am a user from the German Wikipedia and right now I am writing an article about the alchemist Peter Christian Tayssen (Theisen / Teyssen). Unfortunately, there is not much information available about him. It seems that he only appeared in Germany between 1774 and 1778. Several literature sources state that he was Norwegian and he himself claimed to have worked on alchemy for seven years in Norway. Due to the langauge barrier, I am unable to do research about him in Norwegian. Therefore, I like to ask if you guys might be able to do a quick Google search just to find out if there is any mention about his alleged time in Norway before 1774 or after 1778 (maybe he returned to his homeland). I would really appreciate this. Best regards --Florean Fortescue (diskusjon) 27. mar. 2020 kl. 12:40 (CET)

Based on your page w:de: Benutzer:Florean Fortescue/Werkstatt I have tried to have a look for him. You have given [[8]] as one of your sources and from that it seems he was brought from Italy in 1776 by w:de:https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_IX._(Hessen-Darmstadt).

- In Norway we have Bokhylla where Norwegian newspapers, journals and books are skanned and can be searched. I find a captain Boye Tayssen around 1709 [[9]], shipowner Chr. Tayssen 1695 [[10]] and major Tayssen around 1914 [[11]]. Teyssen yiealded nothing useful. That's all.

- Norwegian censuses and a lot of files from the archives are scanned by Digitalarkivet and are available electronically [[12]]. There is no-one named Tayssen in the archives. Since we are talking about around 1776 Norway was Danish and there could exist further archives in Copenhagen.

- I find a book about the family Theisen [[13]], but no one named Peter Christian.

- I did try to search for "Peter Christian" in nb.no, but this a very difficult search. I did however look at material published before 1800, but had no luck.

- Back in 1776 spelling of names was not consistent. The names Teisen or Theisen are fairly common in Norway and Christian may also be spelled Kristian. I also have reason to suspect danes may use or have used the name Theisen. I did find a few Teyssen in nb.no, but unfortunately the oldest one was kasserer i 1922.

- Sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck with your search. --ツ^ツDyveldi^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 28. mar. 2020 kl. 14:44 (CET)

Thank you very much for your effort anyway. Unfortunately, not every research ends with a sense of achievement. I uploaded the article now into the German Wikipedia. If you are interested, you can see it here. Best regards --Florean Fortescue (diskusjon) 28. mar. 2020 kl. 16:58 (CET)

Intra-Scandinavian slurs

Sorry for writing in English (I can read Norwegian reasonably well though), anyways: I've been working on ethnic slurs (Limey, Kraut, Hurri etc.) over at de:wp; the most relevant for y'all being the article on de:Norrbagge, including passing references on the fjeldabe, the söta bror, the svenskeradd and the partysvenske, though excluding the alleged reindeer-fucking (pardon my French). Did I miss any intra-scandinavian slurs? What do you, the Norwegians that is, call the Danes, or the Finns, when in a foul mood? --2A01:C23:646D:FF00:C39:6260:AB99:6DB9 25. mai 2020 kl. 02:56 (CEST)

Soweit mir bekannt, gibt es nicht besonders viele Schimpfwörter für Norweger, das kommt wohl auch davon, dass das Verhältnis zu unseren Nachbarn eigentlich ziemlich freundlich ist. Aber Norweger selbst benutzen manchmal den Begriff Ola Dunk, d.h. ein provinzieller, weltfremder Norweger. Das entspricht ungefähr dem englischen Country bumpkin. Asav (diskusjon) 25. mai 2020 kl. 12:05 (CEST)

Das mit dem freundschaftlichen Verhältnis ist mir zwar klar, bin ja selbst finnischer Staatsbürger, und mir fällt auch gerade kein finnisches Schimpfwort für Norweger ein (de:Hurri und de:Ryssä hab ich schon verfertigt allerdings), aber was sich liebt, das neckt sich ja, wie der Volksmund weiss. Aber habt ihr denn gar keine Schimpfwörter für Dänen? Das ist angesichts der norwegischen Geschichte ja doch recht erstaunlich.

Zusatzfrage: wie würdest du den Begriff svenskeradd erklären/einschätzen? Vollkommen veraltet oder noch gebräuchlich? Abwertend oder ok? --2A01:C23:646D:FF00:C39:6260:AB99:6DB9 25. mai 2020 kl. 21:18 (CEST)

Das Wort ist mir fast nicht bekannt, aber ich glaube es ein paar Mal gehört zu haben. Das bedeutet natürlich nicht, dass es überhaupt nicht gebraucht wird. Aber ich nehme an, dass es veraltet ist. Das Suffix -radd hat wohl sonst nur im Schimpfwort «tjuvradd» (für einen Dieb) überlebt, und das ist meines Erachtens auch kein besonders moderner Begriff. Asav (diskusjon) 25. mai 2020 kl. 23:18 (CEST)

Black Lives Matter Logo in different languages

Please help to translate the Black Lives Matter Logo for this wikipedia.
Follow this Link to get to the request. Thank you --Mrmw (diskusjon) 7. jun. 2020 kl. 22:10 (CEST)

deviser/n

Hi, I've been working a bit on the origin of the financial term Devisen meaning «foreign exchange/currency», which apparently originated in Germany in the 19th century and subsequently spread to most European languages - all Romance and Slavic languages, Dutch, Hungarian - with the notable exception of English, which lacks an equivalent altogether, and Swedish, where the term deviser was adopted in the mid- to late 19th century, but fell out of use, at least according to the Svenska Akademiens Ordbok, which marks it as kallast br.[uklig] (an accurate assessment according to my sister, who works for Nordea....). Does that hold true for Norwegian and Danish as well? The entry for devise in the NAOB (økonomi, handel: utenlandsk betalingsmiddel; veksel i utenlandsk valuta) makes no mention as to how common the word is or was , neither does the Den Danske Ordbog in its respective entry, but I suspect the term is heard in Norwegian about as often as the mating call of the mastodon? And what's the deal with the two plural forms devisen/deviser? Hints are much appreciated. --2A01:C22:AC14:F200:FAB2:6B65:3FB1:5127 31. jul. 2020 kl. 14:01 (CEST)

Hi. I'm not familiar with any use of devise in 21st century Norwegian, so yes we're looking at mating calls of mastodons here. As for the two plural forms, well, Germanic languages have a lot of ways of making plurals... Sam Vimes (diskusjon) 31. jul. 2020 kl. 16:40 (CEST)

It's not two plurals. It's the definite form and then the plural. It's got a perfectly normal Norwegian conjugation. Telaneo (Diskusjonsside) 31. jul. 2020 kl. 21:42 (CEST)

• Let' take the conjucation first.

- German would be eine Devise (femininum), die Devise, mehrere Devisen [[14]]

- Norwegian would be en devise (masculinum), devisen, flere deviser

- Swedish would be en devis (masculinum), devisen, flere deviser

- Danish would be en devise, devisen, flere deviser [[15]][[16]]

- English would be a devise, the devise,

- but also a device, the device and several devices

- French would be une devise (femininum), la devise, de devises [[17]]

• In German the singular form is used about a «Wahlspruch» and in this sense of the word it is mostly used in singular form. The plural form according to the DWDS means: «Devisen Plur. ‘im Ausland zahlbare Wechsel’ (um 1830), ein unerklärter, wohl im Dt. aufgekommener Wortgebrauch, vgl. Schirmer in: Mutterprache (1949) 68; seit der Inflation von 1923 ‘Zahlungsmittel in ausländischer Währung’.» [[18]]. In the meaning Wechsel German seems only to use the plural form, Devisen. In both cases the German word stems from French.

- In English a devise has a different meaning according to the OED: «The act of devising, apportioning, or assigning, by will; a testamentary disposition of real property; the clause in a will conveying this.» [[19]] and the OED youngest quotation is from 1895. Devise and device have the same french origin. Device have several meanings and are as far as I know far more common than devise.

- The French word, where the original word seems to stem from in all the other languages, it have come from «Etymology: < Old French devise, devis (in same sense) < Romanic devīso , devīsa , for Latin dīvīsus , and (late) dīvīsa , from participial stem of dīvidĕre to divide, distribute, apportion, also, in medieval Latin, = disponere testamento , to dispose by will.» (OED) and in addition to a motto type meaning it also means «B.− ÉCON., FIN. 1. Tout actif financier liquide libellé en monnaie étrangère (d'apr. Tézenas 1972). Liquidités en devises. 2. P. méton., usuel. Monnaie étrangère. Changer, exporter, importer des devises; devise faible, forte; devises étrangères» [[20]]

- The Norwegian word en devise is translated to German as (1) Devise, Wahlspruch (2) (bank plural of the word) Zahlungsanweisung (see page 93 ISBN 82 00 07253 3. This tallies well with the two usages of the German word.

- The Swedish word seems only to mean «im Ausland zahlbare Wechsel» and the oldest example is from 1855.

- In Danish the word have both a meaning to do with motto/Wahlspruch and then some more, but also the Wechsel meaning and in Danish this usage goes back to 1859 and the most recent example is from 1940.

- The meaning Zahlungsanweisung also exists in French, se fr:Dictionnaire historique de la langue française: «Le sens financier est apparu le dernier (1842) probablement par emprunt à l’allemand Devise, employé en ce sens vers 1830 : il vient, par métonymie, de ce que l’on imprimait des devises sur des formulaires de change. Ce sens s’est détaché des autres, eux-mêmes sentis comme indépendants par rapport au verbe.» This is a reliable source and it seems the Wechsel-meaning in French stems from German.

- At last the really good source, Kluge's de:Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache explains both Devise and Devisen. About Devisen the last edition says: «Devisen PI. 'Zahlungsmittel in fremder Wäh- rung', fachsprachl. Im 19. Jh. entlehnt aus gleichbedeutend frz. devise f., aus afrz. devise 'Bestimmung, Anordnung, Verfügung', einer postverbalen Ableitung von afrz. deviser 'an- ordnen, bestimmen', einem Intensivum zu afrz. viser 'aufmerksam machen, ins Auge fassen', aus 1. vidère (vïsum) 'sehen, wissen'. (In frz. deviser liegt eine Vermengung mit dem Wort- stamm von 1. dîvidere vor, s. Devise.) Zunächst handelt es sich um eine kaufmännische Zah- lungsanordnung, dann insbesondere um eine auf einen ausländischen Handelsplatz ausge- stellte Zahlungsanweisung ( = Wechsel). Um 1900 ist eine Devise ein Auslandswechsel. Im Zusammenhang der Inflation von 1923 entsteht dann die Bedeutung 'ausländisches Zahlungs- mittel'.»

• The usage of the word is a challenge in Norwegian as we are dealing with both the meaning motto and the meaning Zahlungsanweisung and there is no way to distinguish between the two with a word search. Nasjonalbiblioteket have made this search engine [[21]] which shows that the word have been used in Norwegian since 1810 but the usage have increased a lot since the 1940-ies and has a peak in the late 1990-ies. If you do a search in books and newspapers scanned by Nasjonalbiblioteket (nb.no) you will find that devise* occurs at least once in 15 053 books and in 29 494 newspapers (aviser), but there is no automatic way to count the different meanings of the words separately. --ツ^ツDyveldi^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 31. jul. 2020 kl. 23:04 (CEST)

And Wechsel would be veksel in Norwegian and a bill of exchange in English. Eller deviser (no) = currency (en) = Devisen (de) og valuta (no) = foreign currency, foreign exchange (en) = Währung, Devisen, Valuta (de), se Hanheide, Bjørn (1979). Norsk-engelsk-tysk merkantil ordbok. Oslo: Tanum-Norli. s. 49, 257. ISBN 8251807549.  --ツ^ツDyveldi^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 31. jul. 2020 kl. 23:26 (CEST)

Thanx, but I was really only asking for an assessment of the past and present currency of the term in Norwegian (and Danish). As for the various hypotheses on the etymology of the term, or rather on how this etymologically actually quite transparent term acquired its meaning in banking, semasiologically speaking: Those I have already researched extensively, as you could have found out simply by following my link to de:Devisen#Etymologie, which I provided in my question; in fact I have actually read every article ever published on this topic, not only Schirmer, but also Baldinger, etc., in full, and not just the excerpts in the Kluge, or the DWDS; and found all of them rather murky btw, which led me to develop my very own informed guess, which I sent to en:Anatoly Liberman at the University of Minnesota, who then published it in his etymology blog over at the Oxford University Press (and here I should probably stress that I even though my "Original Research", as y'all call it around here, may now be considered published and citable, I have not added it to the Wikipedia article/chapter on Devisen and its whenceabouts). Also, devise cannot be conjucated or even conjugated in any language, only declined, since it is a noun. --2A01:C23:6427:CC00:F623:E890:A0F1:5834 1. aug. 2020 kl. 02:50 (CEST)

Thanks for the information and the links. Sorry, I did not provide the answer you wanted. There is no way to find out how common this word is in Norwegian without doing a search for devise* in nb.no. Since the word has several meanings you would have to open all the books and count which ones is financial. With the newspapers it is a bit easier since an excerpt is provided so you do not have to actually open the newspaper to do a count. Regards. --ツ^ツDyveldi^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 1. aug. 2020 kl. 11:33 (CEST)