Diskusjon:IJ (bokstav)

ij som y ?

Er ikke veldig stødig i nederlandsk, men blir ikke denne ij ofte (internasjonalt) skrevet som y? Jeg tenkte f. eks. på Johan Cruyff. Er dette noe som kunne legges til i artikkelen? Wikijens 22. mar 2009 kl. 17:00 (CET)

I'm sorry I don't speak Norwegian but I think I understand the question and I can answer it: no, ij in Dutch is never the same as y, not even internationally. However, for international reasons (languages other than Dutch don't use ij) some names have been changed to include y in stead of ij. For instance, the Rotterdam football club Feijenoord changed its name officially into Feyenoord. The part of Rotterdam where this club has its stadium is still called Feijenoord. Richardw 23. mar 2009 kl. 13:19 (CET)

Thanks for the answer. My question was rather if the fact that ij sometimes is written y internationally should be mentioned in the article, not that the article should be moved to y or anything. It could maybe just be mentioned with the explanation and example you give here. Wikijens 27. mar 2009 kl. 10:27 (CET)

Well - go ahead I'd say. But be sure not to make the impression that ij and y are the same. The change is only made for foreigners because ij is unknown to most non-Dutch, and reading it as a standard i+j combination could sometimes lead to confusion. For instance: I once had foreign visitors over for a visit and they couldn't imagine how to pronounce a j followed by a k and a z. Neither could I - until I saw we entered the subwaystation "Dijkzigt".

When the change is made, however, it is seen as a formal change and not as a different way of writing it.

Richardw 27. mar 2009 kl. 16:40 (CET)

Ok. I added two sentences about this at the end of the article. Hope I got it right. Just out of curiosity: Why does Dutch wikipedia also have nl:Ruud van Nistelrooy spelled with y? Has he officially changed the spelling of his name or is he also in the Netherlands mostly known with this spelling after he became internationally famous? Was he known as Ruud van Nistelrooij before he went to Manchester United? Wikijens 27. mar 2009 kl. 17:45 (CET)

A rough translation of the addition I made, so you can check if it's correct: «Some names, especially within sports, are internationally often written with y instead of ij. Some examples are the football players JC and RvN. The football club Feijenoord from Rotterdam in the 70's, after having become a regular participant in the european cups, officially changed its name into Feyenoord, while the district which has given the club its name still is called Feijenoord.» Wikijens 27. mar 2009 kl. 17:54 (CET)

I did get the meaning (even in Norwegian) and I think it's basically correct. I don't know for certain if it's "mostly" in sports though, but all examples I know of seem to support it so I wouldn't change that. As for Ruud van Nistelrooy: I'm not really into football so I read the Dutch article on him. In that article it says you're correct, his name used to be "Van Nistelrooij" and for the same reason I've already given he changed that to "Van Nistelrooy" prior to his transfer to Manchester United.

There was another problem with his name though: it was too long to fit on shirts, especially children's shirts. The club asked for a smaller print, but on the official shirt his name was even further shortened to "v. Nistelrooy". This caused even more confusion since hardly anyone knew what the "v." ment. When it turned out it means "van" he got his nickname: "Van the Man". The real meaning of "van" is "from" - his full name originally ment "Ruud from Nistelrooij". This has nothing to do with the y/ij subject of course.

Richardw 28. mar 2009 kl. 10:23 (CET)

Name change "required"

Hej,

again I'm sorry for not speaking Norwegions but technically the name of this article is incorrect. In official rules, when capitalizing ij BOTH letters should be capitalized: IJ. Ij is usually considered an error. See also this webiste.

Therefore, I propose that someone who does speak Norwegian rename this article to IJ.

Richardw 23. mar 2009 kl. 13:23 (CET)

I see the change has been made. Tusen Takk. Richardw 24. mar 2009 kl. 11:18 (CET)