Diskusjon:Shawarma

Döner - shawarma

Hello to those who will read this and sorry for writing in English. As you may see in my page I am interested in food articles. I have a few observations about this article that I would like to share. I see that you do not have a döner article. However, you have a "shawarma" article which is very related to "döner". I mean the "article itself" is related to döner; the relation between shawarma and döner is a more complex issue. Let me explain: I do not know if in this language you use sahawarma and döner interchangeably, but if you look at Wikidata and other language Wikipedias you will see that these are two different things, although their roots possibly are the same. Having said all that, your article uses two "döner" pictures and no "shawarma" pictures. Secondly, your article claims that the Turkish word for "shawarma" is "şavurma", which is not correct. Please do not tell me that the Turkish Wikipedia uses the word "şavurma" for shawarma", ask "them" why they do so, because there is no such word in Turkish language as "şavurma". I think you can find the Turkish Language Association (TDK)'s online dictionaries easily and see that among the 600,000 (six hundred thousand) strong words in the Turkish dictionary there is no such word. There is, however, a "shawarma" chain in Turkey whose brand name is "Şavurma". I guess the enterprise has foreign owners. Returning to the article here, some of the references are about "döner". One of them is about "shawarma"s etymology with the fact that "shawarma" comes from the Turkish word "çevirme" (rotating), a word that we still use for "rotating" meats, like "kuzu çevirme" (a whole lamb stack on a wooden stick) or "piliç çevirme", rotating chickens on a metal or wooden stick. With that fact referenced, and no sources about "şavurma" 1. You cannot say that "Shawarma is şavurma in Turkish". 2. You cannot use "döner" pictures in your "shawarma" article as I see from the redlink to "döner kebab" inside, you have an intention to make a "döner" article. Then will you use the same pictures there? --E4024 (diskusjon) 14. jul. 2015 kl. 09:04 (CEST)

Differences between the two

I already said this is -maybe- not the place to do this, but please forgive me. First of all I am aware that in many countries in Europe the words "döner", "shawarma" and "kebab" have different meanings then in my country (I am from Turkey). I am also aware that people look at a shawarma and at a döner and do not see the difference. Of course we cannot ask them to go to Beirut or Damascus (not now, very risky) and try a real shawarma, which I love. Leaving aside political correctness, "shawarma" is almost always made with lamb. In Turkey, lately we have been making our döners almost entirely from veal and beef. (Some add some ovine grease for taste.) Not to count chicken döner, we have even managed to make döner of "hamsi" (a fish). We -in Turkey- have several types of döner, authentic "Ankara döneri" and authentic "Bursa döneri" have more differences than similarities. "Bursa kebabı" or "iskender" should be made only with Bursa döneri because that is how it has to be done. In Turkey serving "döner" in a "dürüm" (yufka roll) is a quite recent novelty, due to social changes (fast life, fast food). All the "shawarmas" I ate in the Middle East came in a dürüm-like roll, even 30 years ago, never as a dish. They possibly do not even have (or I don't know) a name for "dürüm" because that is the only, well almost only, way they consume their lamb shawarmas. And the accompanying food? Please, in Turkey we don't even know the names of those turşu vegetables they use. You may never see a döner roll served with hummus in Turkey. Fried potatoes -like every fast food- may drop in your döner plate nowadays in Turkey too, but that is not "traditional". In Beirut, maybe due to French influence, fries come without asking, since many decades. In Turkey our döner comes on top of "pide" and is accompanied by some grilled vegetables (tomato and pepper) -if any- and some bulgur or rice. Traditionally it came "on top of" rice (pilavüstü) but today it does so if only you ask it that way. Our "pide" has nothing to do with "their" (cuisines that offer shawarma) flatbread. These are some differences between "döner" and "shawarma", but of course I am speaking about these two in their "home countries". If this talk is not helping anything, you may delete it. I wrote this because I saw the redlink to döner kebab and thought might be useful. Of course it is all my "original research". --E4024 (diskusjon) 14. jul. 2015 kl. 09:27 (CEST)